I have been enjoying the music of Kevin Kastning for quite a while now, a guitarist who sounds like no-one else, not only due to his training and influences, but also in the instruments he uses. Which of course leads to the question…
Who, what or when is Kevin Kastning?
An eternal student. I say that because in my daily practicing routines, learning seems to be the central goal.Learning about instrument technique, composition,the vast endlessness ofmusic theory, and instrument technique again, especially with my multi-string/double-course/triple-courseinstruments. When I’m studying, for example, classical guitar, there are many method books for this direction, it’s a well-documented branch of study. There are no method books for my instruments, so for each one of them, I must learn it and approach it as an entirely new and different instrument, which they all are. The onus is on me to, essentially, write the method books for each of myinstruments: I playin cello position with the instruments in a vertical orientation and that impacts everything as well, and the more I learn, the more I see how little I know. Ergo, I feel like an eternal student. This isn’t a complaint, itis kind of exciting, as it means constant discovery and growth. I’m finding new discoveries almost daily.
Who initially inspired you to get involved in music, why, and what keeps you motivated?
According to my father, it was there since birth. He’s shared stories with me about how when I was a baby, the only way to get me to stop crying was to put on some music. According to him, I’d silently stare at the source of the music as long as it was playing and never move. He said as soon as I could crawl, I’d head for where the music was coming from and just stay there. My dad was a bassist and had a vast record library, many of my first memories of early childhood are of listening to his records.I had toy instruments as a small child; piano, guitarand started playing trumpet and taking lessons when I was seven.I started writing music about that same time; I remember begging my dad to buy me a manuscript book when I saw one at the music store. He did, and it didn’t take me long to fill it up.I added guitar to trumpet and piano when I was 11. As for keeping motivated, I’ve never had an issue with thatas I feel like there’s not enough hours in the day to do the work I want to do. Between the daily practicing schedule, composing, the recording schedule, and other music-related activities, there’s never been a question of motivation. Each time I discover something new, either on the multi-string instruments, something compositional, or something theoretical, it’s exciting and pushesme even further.
Who initially inspired you to get involved in music, why, and what keeps you motivated?
According to my father, it was there since birth. He’s shared stories with me about how when I was a baby, the only way to get me to stop crying was to put on some music. According to him, I’d silently stare at the source of the music as long as it was playing and never move. He said as soon as I could crawl, I’d head for where the music was coming from and just stay there. My dad was a bassist and had a vast record library, many of my first memories of early childhood are of listening to his records. I had toy instruments as a small child; piano, guitar and started playing trumpet and taking lessons when I was seven. I started writing music about that same time; I remember begging my dad to buy me a manuscript book when I saw one at the music store. He did, and it didn’t take me long to fill it up. I added guitar to trumpet and piano when I was 11.
As for keeping motivated, I’ve never had an issue with that as I feel like there’s not enough hours in the day to do the work I want to do. Between the daily practicing schedule, composing, the recording schedule, and other music-related activities, there’s never been a question of motivation. Each time I discover something new, either on the multi-string instruments, something compositional, or something theoretical, it’s exciting and pushes me even further.
What led to the fascination with multi-stringed instruments?
They were born out of necessity as the music was expanding and internally, I was hearing compositional structures and textures coming from instruments that didn’t exist. This is in the late ‘90s/early 2000’s. I’d been composing string quartets and other chamber compositions, but in terms of guitar, I couldn’t tangibly grasp or reach what I was hearing through extant instruments: it was beyond frustrating and was becoming depressing. I thought the problem was guitar, but I eventually realized that the problem was not guitar, but specifically the 6-string guitar in its state at that time. In the early 2000’s, I became an artist endorser for Santa Cruz Guitars, they would make guitars for me that I specified, but at this time it was limited to 6-string instruments. I was speaking with Dan Roberts at Santa Cruz one day, trying to explain a design I had in mind that dropped the overall tuning by a fourth or so, and he said, “Oh, you’re talking about a baritone guitar.” I’d never heard of baritone guitars at the time, and said “What’s that?” Dan said, “I’ll send one out to you.”
So, I had a 6-string bari here for about six or seven months which I think was designed to be tuned to C below concert E but I was using heavier string gauges and dropping it down to B and eventually to A. I experimented with several varied registers and tunings with it and used it on a couple of album projects and this was sort of close to what I was hearing, but not quite: as if it was part of what I was hearing, and in the right direction. After having the bari here for a few months, Dan and I designed an extended 6-string baritone that would be tuned in F#, which is a seventh below E tuning and had a longer scale and wider nut than the bari they’d sent to me. I loved that, but after using it on an album recording session, I realized the two instruments I used the most for that session were the baritone and a Martin 12-string. I was out hiking one day, thinking about the recording session and those two instruments and had the thought “I wish I could combine those two into one.” I called Dan and said, “Could we build a 12-string baritone?” So, Santa Cruz agreed and built a beautiful 12-string baritone that I still have and use; this would be around 2005. The bari-12 was also centered in F# tuning, but I started using intervallic tunings on it, and this was almost the exact same thing I’d been hearing in my head in terms of harmonic structures. Pretty exciting and liberating. (As a side note: a couple of years ago, I had the bari-12 converted into a 12-string Contraguitar in E Contra tuning.) But the compositions were still for non-existent instruments, as the range and scope were much larger than a guitar’s range and in different registers.
After using the bari-12 as my main instrument for a couple of years, I realized I was reaching for strings that weren’t there, both figuratively and literally. I started thinking about adding more courses to it and putting it all in an even lower register. I drew up a spec, and called Dan, who by this time had started his own company (Daniel Roberts Stringworks). This turned out to be the first Contraguitar (named C1), which is tuned a full octave below concert E, and has 17 strings. Knowing that this was exactly what I’d been hearing and the point to which I’d been moving, I commissioned Dan to build a second one for me about a year after the first one was completed; that one is named C2. I now have several Contras: 16-, 17-, 18-string versions. Some of those are tuned in sub D, sub C#, and sub C, so even lower than the original Contra E tuning. Each one is in a different intervallic tuning, so each instrument starts to resemble an orchestral section. No two tunings are replicated; each instrument is in a different tuning, and some are in different registers. Dan built two Contras for me, and the others are made for me by Alistair Hay at Emerald Guitars, of those, four are doubleneck instruments. It turned out that these were the instrument sounds I’d been hearing and for which I was composing. Having these multi-string instruments, all in double courses, was like having an entirely new artistic life. Since about 2012, my main instrument is the 36-string Double Contraguitar which was built by Emerald. Secondary instruments are the 30-string Contra-Alto, 30-string Double Contra which has six triple courses, 24-string Double Subcontra, 18-string Contra, and a few others. A 28-string is currently in the works at Emerald.
Where did you get your formal training and who have you studied with?
My undergrad degree was at Wichita State University in Kansas. WSU had a wonderful college of fine arts; being there was really beneficial for me, then after that, I attended Berklee College of Music in Boston. One of my key teachers was Dr. Walter Mays at WSU. He won the Pulitzer Prize one year and was my first composition teacher. He was a truly interesting, and sadly a highly underrated composer: I had true respect and admiration for him. Sadly, he passed a few years ago. My first guitar teacher at WSU was Glenn Alexander who was very helpful and encouraging and got me thinking about a lot of music theoretical concepts. Through Glenn, I realized jazz guitarists must be walking theory books. I studied under an aural skills professor at WSU, Dr. Nicholas Smith, and one of the things we did in his class was transcribing Bach 4-part chorales in real-time. He’d put on a record of a Bach chorale, and I’d have to transcribe it right there, all four parts. No doubt I was wildly inaccurate doing this at age 18 but being exposed to this seemed to open new neural pathways for me. This process instantly made me start hearing Bach in entirely new and different ways, and I suspect I still do, as if I was hearing Bach from the inside out. Doing this process also made doing jazz solo transcriptions easier. My gratitude to Dr. Smith.
At Berklee, I studied with the same guitar professor during my entire tenure there, John Wilkins. He was a colossal straight-ahead jazz player, and I learned a lot from him. He was, for me, the exact right teacher at the right time and I continued to study with him for a couple of years after Berklee. When I was at Berklee, there was an alto saxophonist on faculty with whom I studied named Walter Beasley. Walter gave me some key direction and encouragement in my early Berklee days; some things that no one had ever said to me which were beyond helpful and also arrived at exactly the right time which really made a deep and positive impact on me. My time at Berklee was a true milestone for me, a turning point in my life. I loved every minute of it.
During my first semester at Berklee, I briefly studied with Pat Metheny. He was not part of Berklee at that time; I was taking private lessons with him. He made a tremendous impact on me, and I still work on things he mentioned to me all these years later. One of which was time and rhythm, which sounds like a basic element, and in some ways is, but Pat presented it in advanced ways about which I’d not considered, and there are things about that on which I still work. Side note: I did a European tour with Dominic Miller several years ago and one night backstage he complimented me on the strength of my time and rhythm. I thanked him, but internally I was thinking, “Thank you, Pat.” Pat was incredibly helpful to me, he was brutal in his honesty, which is exactly what I needed. At the same time, he was very encouraging, which is also what I needed, being in my first semester at Berklee. Around this time, Pat introduced me to his brother Mike Metheny who is a tremendously beautiful and lyrical jazz trumpet/flugelhorn player. During my jazz years, I was far more influenced by horn players and pianists than I was by guitarists, and I’d long wanted to study with a horn player. After Berklee, I started taking private lessons with Mike for a year or two and he exposed me to other, non-guitar-specific concepts which were not only helpful, but impactful. Mike and I are still friends and speak from time to time.
Many of my courses at Berklee were composition classes, I was writing all the time there and still do. For example, last year, I wrote over 60 new pieces.
I also need to discuss the impact of Sandor Szabo. Sandor and I have been playing/recording/touring together for about 20 years. While he was never my teacher, he has been and continues to be a kind of defacto mentor to me. I’ve learned so much from him; I can’t begin to explain the depth of influence he’s had on me as a mentor, an artistic partner, a human, and as a true friend. He is like a brother to me, and I value him dearly.
Of those you trained with, who had the biggest influence on you, and why?
It’s difficult to single out any one teacher, as they all made such a deep impact on me, and their influence on my playing and thinking is still being felt. If I had to single out someone, I think it would have to be Pat and Mike Metheny, and also Sandor. I’m so grateful to them for their help, encouragement, impact, and faith.
You say you were composing for string quartets and other chamber compositions – were these performed? If so, how did this come about?
A few of those pieces were premiered in the mid-1990s by the London Chamber Players but as far as I know, there were no recordings of those performances. I’ve not really pursued performances or recordings of my modern classical compositions as it requires so much time and energy, and I chose instead to focus that energy on composing. I’ve finished eight string quartets and have about that many more in various stages of completion. There are also chamber pieces for various duo, trio, quartet, and quintet compositions for winds, strings, and combinations of both. Additionally, there are around 11 or 12 solo piano sonatas. And there’s a few orchestral pieces underway as well. I compose using piano, so I think the classically based compositions are in a different direction than the guitar works. Maybe.
What was the Kevin Kastning Unit, what were your most memorable highlight from that time, and why the decision to disband it?
Oooh, deep catalog! The Kevin Kastning Unit was a quartet comprised of double bass, drums, saxophone, and me on 6-string guitar in Boston from 1985 to 1990 and was a vehicle for performing my compositions. I was simultaneously gigging in various jazz settings playing things that I’d not written, like jazz standards, Real Book material, bebop, and free jazz. The Unit was a way that I could get my pieces performed and recorded; we used to gig fairly regularly during those years in Boston and the highlights were the fact we went into the studio a few times and did some recordings. There are probably two or three albums worth of material on tape. I’ve written over 200 jazz pieces, so there was always plenty of material for us.
I disbanded the Unit when I realized that what I was writing was no longer jazz, really. Each piece was slowly getting more rehearsal-intensive and more complex and difficult and moving toward modern classical chamber works but I didn’t realize this for a time. Then one night at rehearsal, I was passing out parts for a new piece, which that alone should have been a clue, as usually in jazz, you don’t compose specific parts for each instrument. I remember handing the drum chart to the drummer: he looked at it for about 10 seconds and gave me a very dirty look! I remember thinking, “Oh.” I got it. Also, the Unit members would have to learn and practice their parts; they weren’t easily sight-readable, and rehearsals were becoming more and more frequent. Really good players, though; in fact, the saxophonist in the Unit was Carl Clements; we still work together and just finished recording what will be our eighth album together.
When and why did you make the call to move away from written and rehearsed music and instead concentrate on improvisation?
I don’t know that it was a discernable decision; it was more of a gradual process or an evolution. I don’t see what I do as improvisation, though it clearly is, I think of it more as real-time composition. Same end result perhaps, but that’s just my thinking and approach. I sometimes think of compositions as improvisations that are frozen in time. I may be functioning more as a composer using various multi-string instruments to compose and realize those compositions in real-time. I sometimes think of my multi-string instruments as different sections in an orchestra. Other times they feel like a complete orchestra, especially the doubleneck instruments. As such, they provide an ideal canvas or vehicle for realizing these pieces.
You have worked with a wide range of collaborators in different settings. How do you decide who to work with and how many projects do you have running continuously?
Various things and ways. Some collaborators are decided upon based on how they play, their thought processes, conceptual approach, the environments in which they work (composed or improvised), and how we connect as people. If they have what I term “the new mind,” wherein they can compose in real-time; both as solo artists and as part of a group, or maybe intuition when I hear their work. One example of this is pianist Michael Cain. He’s the pianist on some of Jack DeJohnette’s records, and every time I’d hear his playing, it just knocked me out, not because he’s a great player, which he clearly is, but because he sounded like we already had an artistic connection. He had a similar approach on piano as I have when doing two-handed extended guitar techniques. I contacted him, and after he heard some of my music, he agreed. We are about halfway through recording our first album.
Sometimes they find me, which was the case with Sandor Szabo. He contacted me in 2005 with some questions about my album “Scalar Fields” with guitarist Siegfried which had just been released at that time. He also sent me some of his albums, and upon hearing the first one, I had a feeling we’d be working together. Not long after that, he asked if I’d do a record with him, and here we are 20 years later, still working together, and every project we do feels fresh and new to me.
Guitarist Mark Wingfield found me. He asked if I’d do an album with him, and I agreed, as what he does on electric guitar is unique and he really has his own singular voice and approach. That was almost 20 years ago, and we’re still working together. Mark’s approach and playing has made an impact on me, and he’s become one of my closest friends over the years. We’re currently working on two album projects.
Another instance was meeting and working with trumpetist Phil Grenadier who had recorded some albums with bassist Bruno Raberg that I really liked. Bruno is a beautiful artist and has a pretty fearless approach to double bass; just a monster bassist; I love him. One day when Bruno and I were in the studio, he said, “Phil would love what we’re doing, we need to do a trio project with him.” Bruno spoke to him, and Phil said he’d love to, and we recorded a trio album which will be released this year. Phil and I had such a strong artistic connection that we also recorded a couple of duo albums; the first of which was released as “In Visible Ascent” in 2024. I hope to be doing more work together this year with both Bruno and Phil.
As for how many recording projects, there are usually between 5 and 10 happening simultaneously which will all be in various stages and reaching completion at different times. Right now, it’s probably closer to 10. I used to have a whiteboard where I tracked recording projects. Now I have two, and that’s likely to expand to three pretty soon.
Compositional and solo projects are continuously ongoing.
Your approach to music, which involves not only your use of multi-stringed instruments but also working with different collaborators and band settings, is very different to others. What influences you, and how do you think that is expressed through your recordings?
Here again I am fortunate to have the partners with whom I work. I approach each project differently and see each project and each artist as unique, never wanting to make the same record twice. I try to stay out of the way and let the music organically move how and where it needs to go. Same approach for my solo works.
I see each project or work with each partner akin to branches on a tree, each moves and grows in its own direction. They’re all different and going in differing directions; yet somehow connected. Each project or partner enables me to access a direction of work that might otherwise be inaccessible. It’s similar with the solo works; they enable me to find paths and directions that would otherwise not exist
I suppose there are different categories of influences. Nature is always an ongoing influence on me. Various elements, snow, trees, plants, landscapes, patterns, natural elements I discover on hikes. Mountains for sure. I just returned from a trip to Switzerland, and I was near the French Alps: just looking at them I could start to hear things, and no doubt some compositions based on this will be forthcoming.
I’ve also been impacted by painters. I won’t try to list everyone, but there are works of, for example, Jackson Pollock and Mark Rothko that I can hear just by looking at them. Akin to the impact of the French alps: I can hear things just by seeing them or being near them. Architecture is in there, too, certain buildings by the Bauhaus school, various architects operating in the International style. Frank Gehry. There are others.
I’ve not been influenced by very many guitarists. Those that have made an impact are Allan Holdsworth for his tone, harmonic concept, and legato technique. Sandor Szabo for his technique, conceptual approach, tone, harmonic and melodic sense, individualistic and unique voice, and his improvisatory approach. Ralph Towner is a huge influence, not only in his playing, but also his tone and articulation. Sandor and Ralph are my two favorite acoustic guitarists.
Jazz influences include but are not limited to John Coltrane, Bill Evans, Keith Jarrett’s solo works, Eric Dolphy, Ornette Coleman. Cecil Taylor’s solo piano works for sure, though I don’t think of him as a jazz artist. The AACM folks like Roscoe Mitchell, Muhal Ricard Abrams, Wadada, Anthony Braxton, Henry Threadgill, I also listen to many ECM artists, which have been highly impactful.
Classical composers are my main influences and heroes. I doubt that I could list all the composers that have impacted and educated me, but a few that immediately come to mind are Bartok, especially his string quartets and chamber works; Schoenberg, Webern, Alban Berg, Stravinsky, Elliott Carter, Mahler, Messiaen, Ives, Bach in tremendous ways and with gratitude, Beethoven; specifically the middle and late quartets, Shostakovich, Weiss. And some early music composers like Machaut, Gesualdo, and others.
How the influences are expressed through my recordings… I’m unsure. Perhaps it’s not for me to say. Perhaps it’s some of these influences as distilled through me; could be those composers as my teachers. Maybe it’s the composers I mentioned continually looking over my shoulder. Again… not sure, but that’s an interesting question.
If someone asked you what was the best introductory album to your music which one would it be, and why?
I do get asked that question from time to time and I usually refer them to whatever is the latest release. However, with so many differing projects, I don’t know that that’s still the best answer.
Right now, I might point them to the first record I did with Phil Grenadier, “In Visible Ascent.” Phil and I have such a strong connection together, and he is an amazingly beautiful player with a highly unique and distinctive approach to his instrument. One element on that record that was a milestone for me was the scope of the pieces. There are only two pieces on that record; one is a bit over 15 minutes, and the other is a little over 30 minutes: the compositional aspect of these pieces is rather vast and intense. It was kinda funny; as we were getting set up in the studio the day we recorded that project, Phil asked me, “Any limits on duration of pieces?” I smiled and said, “No!” I’d been moving more toward extended compositional frameworks, and it was as if Phil was reading my mind. We certainly had a mind-meld throughout that project and the trio project with Bruno. Phil is one of my favorite trumpet artists ever.
What can we expect from Kevin Kastning in 2025?
Continuing to be an eternal student as I learn more and continue to see how little I know. There’s also a new KK series instrument in the works at Emerald. Many recording dates are already on the calendar with more pending.
In the realm of new albums, there are several new albums slated for release this year. Here’s a few:
- Kevin Kastning & Mark Wingfield: Live in New York City
- Kevin Kastning/Bruno Raberg/Phil Grenadier: trio
- Kevin Kastning & Phil Grenadier: duo
- Kevin Kastning & Carl Clements: duo
- Kevin Kastning & Sandor Szabo: acoustic duo
Likely more and a few surprises, but those are the ones that are in the can at the moment. Several more are in the works, so that list isn’t complete.
Where can people interested find out more about you?
Official: www.kevinkastning.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kevin-Kastning/124145811718?v=wall
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevinkastning/
My blog: https://kkastning.blogspot.com/
Bandcamp: https://kevinkastning.bandcamp.com/
Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/kevin-kastning/300127344/see-all?section=full-albums&at=1l3vwYf
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1kSiQfg3xCfVxZ9y1fei93
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/KevinKastning
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/kevin-kastning/id300127344
And a few others listed on the home page of my website.
I hope you all enjoyed reading the above as much as I enjoyed the conversation with Kevin. He is a truly unique musician in a world which rewards plastic pap and following the crowd and he consistently refuses to do so with music which is unusual, compelling and real.
Kev Rowland
